Propaganda Sunday/ Discuss

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Morning folks.

Assimilate!!!
 

The Pentagon Is Apparently Letting Redditors Pilot Drones
 

One operator who went by the initial "W" told Reddit users that shooting missiles from behind a computer screen didn't mean war was less real to them.

We understand that the lives we see in the screens are as real as our own. We are located in a combat zone. Although, we are not typical combat troops, so, for me to say that I can tell you the differences between how we feel and how an infantryman feels would be based on assumption that I would make of an infantryman's feelings. That would not be accurate or fair to those troops. From our perspective we are not worrying as much about our own personal harm. We are usually not within harms way. I would not compare what I do as a job comparable to Call of Duty/any other video game, in any sense. It is very real and the seriousness of the lives on the ground is very real and instilled in all of our training. It is never something that we joke about. Very serious business.

 

 

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What I just read

LaEscapee's picture
 
TomDispatch
 
In thinking about the Hagel nomination hearings, here, to me, is the strangest thing – or perhaps I mean the one that tells me most about our new American world: that the position of the secretary of defense not on the U.S. military (a subject that hardly came up in the hearings), but on U.S. policy toward Iran, or Iraq, or Israel actually matters. Once upon a time, I’m quite sure, at such nomination hearings the position of the secdef on essential foreign policy issues wouldn’t have meant much at all. It certainly wouldn’t have been a national spectacle. In other words, it’s a measure of the way in which American foreign policy and the U.S. military have become increasingly synonymous. It tells us a great deal about the militarization of our
American world. Tom

 

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Morning Bruce

LaEscapee's picture

Ike had it right it seems.

You know what gets me? Ad I'm sure you as well is the trillions of dollars that have been dumped in this pit and all the while they talk of America wasting money.
 

Report: U.S. Muslim Terrorism Was Practically Nil in 2012
 

Try as al-Qaida might to encourage them, American Muslims still aren’t
committing acts of terrorism. Only 14 people out of a population of
millions were indicted for their involvement in violent terrorist plots
in 2012, a decline from 2011′s 21. The plots themselves hit the single
digits last year.

Wake up America as they say.

 

 

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Maybe for decades, but under W. Bush it increased a lot

geomoo's picture

Allies were stunned when W's regime sent uniformed military to ask allies for help with construction projects and to discuss policy.  W started with that "I'll leave it up to the generals" and "We need to hear from the boots on the ground" meme.  Soon after Obama's first election, when it was clear that it would be business as usual in Afghanistan, I used to bring this up on dkos.  The Vichy left assured me that things were different under dear Barack Obama, that now the state department and other non-military personnel would be in control and that the teams moving in to help Afghanis gain the wonderful benefits we enjoy in this country--things like democracy and a highly functional public sector--would know what they were doing.  It was all bs, of course.

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the drone operator is too far removed from the reality

sartoris's picture

In my opinion, the modern era of warfare began with WWI.  That is when war was turned on it's head and killing became much less personal.  Yes, there were still pitched battles of soldiers facing soldiers and killing them with their brute strength. However, the introduction of the machine gun, poison gas, and the airplane allowed the killing to be conducted in a highly impersonal manner.

The man in the trench had a mixture of envy and contempt for the pilot who flew above him and the carnage.  The pilot was allowed to sleep in a bed, shower, wear clean clothes and eat in relative peace.  The man in the trench was living on the edge of life and death 24 hours a day every single day. The pilot was in the war, but not part of the war. I understand the role of the pilot, however, compared to the soldier on the ground their war experience is in no way comparable to the soldier who is living the tension of war on a second by second basis. Can a bomber pilot who never sees the faces of the enemy truly comprehend his actions? I suppose it is possible, however, in my opinion it seems unlikely. The pilot is simply too secure, too far removed from the death that is experienced by those on the ground.

A drone operator (I will not call them 'pilots') is the most hideous incarnation of modern warfare. Bringing death and destruction to those on the ground while sitting thousands of miles away is reprehensible. I have no respect for a drone operator. What they are doing is indefensible. They are killing people while they themselves are wearing freshly laundered clothes. Perhaps they just returned from the chow hall where they had lunch with their buddies. Perhaps they complained about the quality of the morning's coffee. Maybe their omelet was not to their liking. Then, they look on a screen, push a button and bring death. That night they drink beer with their buddies and talk about the things that soldiers have always discussed. They are not warriors. They are participants in the sanitization of death.

 

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Well said

LaEscapee's picture

There is no possiblilty that those setting behind a screen can feel what the man, and shortly woman, on the ground might feel about theirs or others actions. I uderstand that there has to be a defense mechanism in the brain to accept that our actions are legitimate but it must be ingrained because when a child is born he knows nothing of killing. Like you said the "pilot" that does  an 8 hour shift could never experience or comprehend what those that spend days in the feild have done or seen.

Another thing and this may border on CT but I wonder personally if those so willing to offer information aren't what they seem.

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They call them "squirters".

geomoo's picture

What more do we need to know?  Not to mention the fact that this is the one aspect of drone deployment that is universally acknowledged as a war crime.  "We respect the humanity of our victims" does nothing to ameliorate the immorality of one-sided warfare, in which one combatant faces no existential threat while the other does.

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it's possible they were real operators, but not probable

sartoris's picture

I suppose they could have been the real deal.  People talk.  People love to brag, confess and just talk. Have you ever read the book: The Puzzle Palace? It was a remarkably detailed book about the National Security Agency. It was written back in 1982 and created quite a bit of controversy in the intelligence community. A great deal of what Bamford (the writer) wrote was learned from those involved. He was amazed at how much people were willing to discuss. There is a Chinese saying: 3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead. 

These could have been real people, however, I'm doubtful. Every branch of the U.S. military has their own drone programs. You're correct, the Air Force does the bulk of the drone work, but they all have their own programs. Even though each branch of the military has their own intelligence agency, they all ultimately report up to the NSA. It might be that the Air Force has 'tactical' control of the drones, but I can virtually guarantee that firing decisions are cleared at the NSA or executive level.

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the hits from the president

nemesis's picture

Are piloted by the CIA. The CIA wants more drones BTW. And domestically there could be as many as 30,000 of them in the sky watching us in the coming years. And if all that doesn't scare you now the other countries are developing them.

Orwell was a prophet.

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I think

nemesis's picture

It would be harder to kill by drone 100 duck sized horses than one horse sized duck. We all need to start breeding hobbits.

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